Thumbs Down for LC500 in Yellow

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 12/08/2016 at 15:14 • Filed to: Design

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I know it’s to remind everyone of the LFA but it doesn’t enhance the actual car’s aesthetics. The LC is beautiful when the colors are brooding. Lexus also has fantastic paints and application but the LC is the only all new Lexus design that depicts restraint. That is a quality worth keeping present.

I doubt this yellow will be offered after the launch year. While I’m on the subject, I wish Lexus would modify their molten orange offered on the F and F-Sport models. It’s just a little bit too vibrant in hue and too flat in texture. Love orange as a signature though!

The LC looks great.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:17

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This looks like the E36 yellow which I always hated because it looks faded new.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:18

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Pale yellow is the worst, gross.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:19

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For LC500 looks in general. Blech.

Mid Engine > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:26

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Like all recent Lexus’, the front end is awful. Seriously, fire the design guys and start over

fintail > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:26

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Pale yellow works on some 40s era cars, not many others.

Still sponsored by Nike, so it’s all good.

marshknute > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:27

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I’d have to see it in person, but it looks too pale of a yellow in the photo. Ferrari pulls it off with their Triple Yellow pearl, but I’d rather see a more saturated yellow like Mercedes’ Jewish Racing Gold (prob not the actual name).

FromCanadaWithLove > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:28

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A V8 GT coupe has to be one of the hardest styles to screw up, but somehow Lexus managed it (regardless of colour). Hatefully ugly car. It even has a CVT. It wobbles the mind how they got it so wrong.

Saracen > FromCanadaWithLove 12/08/2016 at 15:31

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the V8 has a 10-speed automatic. The hybrid has the CVT.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:34

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I’m far more concerned that they totally ripped off Jaguar’s door handles.

Wobbles the Mind > FromCanadaWithLove 12/08/2016 at 15:36

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The non-hybrid uses a 471 hp 5.0L V8 mated to a 10-speed automatic.

But the e-CVT and its use of planetary gearsets is probably the most interesting innovation in transmissions of this decade. I’m super excited for it!

Invinciblejets > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:38

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These are gonna be so awesome for the used car market in 15-20 years.

Wobbles the Mind > marshknute 12/08/2016 at 15:39

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I completely agree with something more in the AMG style. Something a little toned down from that convertible concept they showed off.

Wobbles the Mind > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 12/08/2016 at 15:42

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Noticed that too! I hope this means they’ll trickle down and be the flush door handles that will be on all cars by 2025.

HammerheadFistpunch > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 15:49

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Well, the e-cvt isn’t exactly new, nor is it a Lexus innovation.

Audistein > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 12/08/2016 at 15:56

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Aston Martin had those all the way back in 2004.

Wobbles the Mind > HammerheadFistpunch 12/08/2016 at 15:58

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Two transmissions!

HammerheadFistpunch > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 16:04

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Looks EXACTLY like the Allison AHS-2. Functions the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Hybrid_Cooperation

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Audistein 12/08/2016 at 16:46

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Similar from the outside, but those turn into a pull. I was referring more to the signature on the inside rather than the outer shape.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 16:49

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Yes. But there is still room for innovation in non-flush door handles as well...

QCGoose > Wobbles the Mind 12/08/2016 at 19:56

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I still can’t get over the “squeezed” A-pillars. Barf.

Axial > marshknute 12/09/2016 at 01:17

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The photo of the LC 500 looks like it has a blue filter on it, actually. Need to see a raw image, or see the car in person.

bhtooefr > HammerheadFistpunch 12/09/2016 at 08:35

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To be entirely fair, that’s not the same thing as the Lexus system, and Toyota’s been making e-CVTs since 1997 (for the NHW10 Prius).

So, what that is, is the Global Hybrid Cooperation 2-mode gearbox, although I’d say 2-mode is a bit of a misnomer. The six modes are:

1st gear - engine must be on, engine is geared through a fixed ratio to the wheels

Input split - works just like a Toyota e-CVT, motor B is geared through a fixed ratio to the wheels, motor A acts as a generator and affects the engine RPM, engine can be off at some speeds

2nd gear - exactly what you’d think based on 1st gear

Compound split - THERE BE SORCERY HERE (I don’t actually understand how compound split works exactly (I’d need to see an animation where I can play with sliders of engine speed vs. motor speeds vs. vehicle speed, which is how I came to understand input split), but it effectively ends up acting as a higher speed range for the power split system, and I believe the engine can hypothetically be off in a compound split mode?)

3rd gear - exactly what you’d think

4th gear - ditto

When it’s not in either input split or compound split mode, you have a 4-speed automatic. That’s it. However, note that 2nd gear is in between the input split and compound split modes (and is actually passed through while shifting between them), and in many cases, you’d actually stay in a power split mode if it’s more efficient. (There’s also simpler implementations of the 2-mode concept - city buses using Allison’s hybrid system, the Gen 2 Volt, and the current Malibu Hybrid use a variant that only has input split, 2nd gear, and compound split modes - as well as a new variant that has 1st gear, input split, 2nd gear (only used momentarily), compound split, 3rd gear, a second compound split mode with taller gearing, and a third compound split mode with taller gearing yet, used in the Cadillac CT6.)

So, the reason for the 2-mode gearbox is because, in a Toyota-style e-CVT, motor-generator 1 (or A in GM parlance) in effectively pulls power off of the engine to send to motor-generator 2 (or B in GM parlance), to propel the vehicle, in many cases, to simulate gearing. This means that a lot of power may end up going through the electrical path. And, while electric motors have a very, very, VERY broad power curve, it’s not infinitely broad - make the gearing taller, you hurt low-speed power delivery and efficiency, make the gearing shorter, you hurt high-speed power delivery and efficiency. And, to make matters worse, because of how an e-CVT fundamentally works, MG1 actually has to spin against MG2 to keep the engine from running, and you’ll eventually reach a speed at which the engine must spin, to allow MG1 to stay within its rev limit - short gearing, of course, lowers this speed.

So, with a compound split mode, GM can shift up into it, and lower the motor speeds, while achieving higher speeds. This enables them to have shorter gearing in input split mode, and therefore better acceleration, and better ability to handle high loads (less heat wasted in the motors). That’s also what the fixed gears are for in the Global Hybrid Cooperation transmission - when towing, AFAIK it’ll favor the fixed gears more, bypassing the e-CVT and the electrical losses in it (not so much for efficiency reasons, as transmission and inverter cooling reasons - it’s probably less efficient overall to bypass the e-CVT).

Now, Toyota recognized that this was a problem, when they hybridized the GS and LS - they needed to be capable of high speeds, they needed to be efficient at high speeds, but they also needed to get off the line quickly, especially given the added weight of the older hybrid batteries and such. Instead of the 2-mode system, though, they just stuck a 2-speed gearbox on the end of an e-CVT. 1st gear is optimized for low speeds and hard acceleration, 2nd gear is optimized for cruising and high speed. (IIRC, the shift point during a WOT run is around 70 MPH or so on the GS 450h, so it’s got quite a bit shorter gearing than Toyota’s other e-CVTs, which can all hit around 100 MPH in their only gear.)

The Lexus Multi-Stage Hybrid is the same idea as that, just they stuck a 4-speed gearbox on the end instead of a 2-speed gearbox. My guess is that 1st gear is much shorter, 4th gear is probably taller than 2nd in the old box, which will give more choices to optimize the amount of ICE power that goes through the mechanical vs. electrical path, as well as allow higher-speed EV operation. And, seems they have a “manual” mode that simulates three fixed ratios in the e-CVT, plus the 4-speed gearbox on the end (and only using one fixed ratio in the e-CVT in 4th), to get a total of 10 simulated fixed ratios.

Also, based on patents that are out there, I have reason to believe that they didn’t really design this transmission for Lexus cars - there’s a patent showing it in an application with a low-range transfer case. That patent is for a system to detect that you’re in low-range and tell you to take it out of low-range, dumbass, before you overheat the transmission. My guess is that this transmission is really intended to make a Tundra Hybrid possible, with good towing capacity - the choice of 4 e-CVT to wheel ratios will definitely improve that situation - and why not use it in Lexus cars, too, once you’ve designed it?

CaptDale - is secretly British > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 12/09/2016 at 10:55

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I like the Lexus one more, the Jaguar one looks like they left a sticker on it.